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The Social Zone! => The Lounge. No business, just chit chat. => Topic started by: Jumpin' Jeff on January 11, 2006, 07:17:44 PM

Title: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Jumpin' Jeff on January 11, 2006, 07:17:44 PM
http://www.wxpnews.com/ Tue, Jan 10, 2006 (Vol. 6, 2 - Issue 209)

https://web.archive.org/web/20060111063719/http://www.wxpnews.com/? (https://web.archive.org/web/20060111063719/http://www.wxpnews.com/?)

<div align="left">EDITOR"S CORNER

Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?

In past editorials, we've discussed the effects that our fast-moving high-tech world has had on us. One of those effects seems to be more than ever, people not only expect but demand instant gratification in everything we do. I catch myself doing it all the time.

After getting used to a 15Mbps Internet connection, I get impatient when a Web site loads slowly. Wading through layers of voice mail menus to try to get to a real, live human being when dealing with utility companies, government offices and retailers drives me nuts. Even product packaging seems designed specifically to thwart me. (Luckily, as a writer I'm able to work from home so I don't have to deal with daily commuter frustrations, but I certainly sympathize with those who do).

This "need for speed" sometimes blinds us to the wisdom of the old saying: You can get it done fast or you can get it done right, but you can't have both. Of course, there's a corollary that sometimes you CAN get it done both fast and right, but it won't be cheap. Yet today, many of us seem to think we should be able to get all three at once.

This is nowhere more evident than when it comes to software. We deride software companies for slipping on their projected ship dates, yet we turn around and criticize them for shipping software that still has bugs. We demand access to beta versions of software, then denounce those betas because they aren't yet "ready for prime time."

Now that security has become such a huge issue, software companies face an even bigger challenge. Thousands of hackers are working away every day to find ways to exploit operating systems, networking protocols, and applications. Legitimate security companies do the same thing, hoping to beat the bad guys to the punch. When a vulnerability is discovered, whether by a hacker or a security expert, the software vendor is then expected to come up with a fix. That's a reasonable expectation. What's not always reasonable is the expectation that the software vendor will have a fix available immediately.

It may have taken the security experts literally years after the release of the software to discover a way to exploit it, but many of them then label the software vendor as irresponsible or lazy if a patch isn't rushed out the door within a few days. Often, under the tremendous pressure of public opinion, this actually happens. Sometimes it takes longer. Sometimes the quickly released patches work great. Sometimes they don't.

Anyone who's ever had his/her system hosed by a hastily-written security update knows that there's a downside to releasing patches before they've been fully tested on a lot of systems with different configurations. Has this ever happened to you? You read the horror stories about the latest discovered security flaw in a piece of software you're running and of course, you don't want to leave yourself open to attack so you immediately download and install the "fix." And lo and behold, it ensures that you won't be attacked, all right - because it also prevents you from connecting to the Internet, or maybe from connecting to a network at all, or maybe even from booting the computer. Your data is safe now, even from you.

Microsoft and other large software companies have a vested interest in seeing that security vulnerabilities in their products get fixed, but they also have a responsibility to those who use and depend on their products to get work done to "first, do no harm." That's why they have entire departments dedicated to responding to security incidents and reports of vulnerabilities, and set procedures for creating and testing patches before releasing them to the public. You can read about the Microsoft Security Response Center (MSRC) process for managing vulnerabilities at http://www.wxpnews.com/rd/rd.cfm?id=060110ED-MSRC (http://www.wxpnews.com/rd/rd.cfm?id=060110ED-MSRC). I personally know that there were a lot of people on that team who worked through the Christmas and New Year's holidays, when many of us were spending time with our families or out partying, to address various security issues that had come back over the holidays.

It's easy for us to criticize software companies (and we'll continue to do so when they do something that merits it, such as imposing customer-unfriendly licensing agreements). But as we begin a new year, I think it's a good time to acknowledge the long, tough hours of hard work that employees of those companies put in to bring us consumers and IT professionals the features that we ask for, and to respond to security concerns as quickly and effectively as they can and get those patches out quickly, and at no cost to us. In many cases, company employees could make much more money as consultants or critics, but they stay with the company and forego sleep and personal lives to bring us better software (not perfect software; there's no such thing). I salute them.

Let us know what you think. Should software companies keeping testing until all the bugs are gone before releasing an operating system or application? Is that even possible? Would you be willing to pay twice as much if it takes the company twice as much time to completely debug a program? Or would you prefer to have new software released more quickly and have the bugs patched as they're discovered? Do you think, in general, the industry does a good job of responding to security issues and balancing quality with fast response? Would you prefer to get patches more quickly and take the risk of conflicts or should they be tested more thoroughly before being released? Let us know your opinions at</div><div align="left">feedback@wxpnews.com (feedback@wxpnews.com?subject=Do%20You%20Want%20It%20Fast%20or%20Do%20You%20Want%20it%20Right?).

</div>
Title: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Bryan Durio on January 11, 2006, 07:33:42 PM
And your point is...?  :P

That article is a good reminder of the virtue of patience, however difficult that may be sometimes!
Title: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Jumpin' Jeff on January 11, 2006, 07:39:10 PM
Although we haven't had many posts concerning "Where's the update" recently, I felt that this "Outsiders" view on software developement was dead on. Just passing it on for future reference. ;)

It is exactly that! "A Reminder of the virtue of patience"!
Title: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Jigger on January 11, 2006, 08:54:38 PM
A very good article Jeff and it does apply to all software.
Title: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Lane on January 11, 2006, 09:16:14 PM
I still don't expect Microsoft get it right.  

Also, I don't even want their voodoo!

How about OtsOS?
Title: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Jumpin' Jeff on January 12, 2006, 12:13:12 AM
QUOTE(Lane @ Jan 11 2006, 03:16 PM) [snapback]70070[/snapback]
QuoteHow about OtsOS? [/b]

At least you know it would be done right! :lol:

Title: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Jammin' Adam on January 13, 2006, 04:53:09 AM
Can you imagine Ots Corp making an OS? Runs like windohs but even better than ever imagined, PC boots fully in less than 30 seconds after POST, NO Latency in commands and all screens open as fast as the second click, and of course the "lean and mean" philosophy comes into play so installation takes about 5 minutes or less from start to finish and it only takes about 100MB of drive space instead of a Gig or 2.
Title: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Bryan Durio on January 13, 2006, 01:25:55 PM
And major upgrades would come every 5 or 6 years!

 :lolu:
Title: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Jumpin' Jeff on January 18, 2006, 02:58:10 PM


Edit: The following quote comes from this weeks WinXPNews, Tue, Jan 17, 2006 (Vol. 6, 3 - Issue 210), and is the followup article to the original article that I started this topic with.

QuoteFollowup: Fast or Right? Last week, we discussed how the "need for speed" and expectations of instant gratification lead computer users to demand immediate fixes to exploits and vulnerabilities that are discovered. A number of you wrote to tell us whether you think such demands are reasonable.

Most of you said you understand that software, like everything else in life, is not perfect and programs will have bugs, glitches and vulnerabilities. Tony S. said patches offer a successful balance between early and late releases. Niki S. echoed the sentiments of many of those who actually answered the question "do you want it fast or do you want it right?" with these comments: "I WANT IT RIGHT!" and "I would pay twice as much for software that has been completely debugged and we know is totally secure (if there is such a thing)." Bud C. suggested that all programs should include a way for the buyer/user to be notified when software is being "pinged" for changes by any source, which we agree is a good idea.

We heard from several folks "in the biz," too. Programmers and software testers sent us notes of appreciation for recognizing the incredible difficulty of the process, considering the complexity of modern operating systems and major applications. Mark G. opined that most software vendors do as good a job as they can, given the pressures to get new products and patches out the door in a timely manner.

Michael M. said "With as much code as is needed for an OS and with as infinite the number of possible end user configurations, how can you possibly expect it will be perfect. And how can you possibly expect a software company to be able to instantly release a patch the moment they learn about it. It is unreasonable and the criticism gets tedious at times."

We even heard from people in other industries, who remind us that it's not only the software industry that's affected by the "I want it now" mentality of today's society.

Craig C. brought up some good points: each PC is unique, just as your body isn't identical to everyone else's and you can't rely on a particular medication to not affect you adversely. Likewise, a patch that works fine on one machine may cause usability problems on another because of the applications that are installed, the hardware, or the way the installed software is configured. He suggested that software vendors release patches in beta version, as they do with the OS and apps. This way, those who want it immediately can have it, while also being aware that there might be a bad outcome.

Finally, Jon J. offers the opinion that companies today, including software companies, are being pressured to cut costs to the point where quality suffers in order to sell stock and please shareholders. He said, "If we, "the public" continue to demand "faster! faster!" and "cheaper! cheaper!" combined with performance in the market, we've become our own worst enemy." It's certainly something to think about.[/b]


Title: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: kdservices on January 23, 2006, 11:59:55 PM
QUOTE(Jammin' Adam @ Jan 13 2006, 04:53 AM) [snapback]70145[/snapback]
QuoteCan you imagine Ots Corp making an OS?
[/b]

That Would Be Cool probably wouldnt need shedloads of hard drive and ram. if only all software companys were the same. Bring backs dos!! when they really had to work. :cheers:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: clover-leaf-productions on October 21, 2007, 10:41:23 PM
AN Ots OS would have to have the little spinny guy and his record player in the upper right of each window.   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: JD The DJ on November 30, 2007, 09:13:25 PM
It seems silly to me to have to load a piece of bloatware like XP just to run OTS. I think it would be really coooool if OTS actually build an operating system just to run OTS.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Lane on December 01, 2007, 12:05:08 AM
tune tracker sort of did that.  i believe it distributed with beos, not their own OS, but that sort of idea. there were others i can't think of off the top of my head.  there are also nix based cd's like that.  i personally love the idea, but the masses don't think that way.  there is an issue with providing drivers for all the different hardware options.  not a small task.  it kinda forces you back to a nix or something that has open source drivers available.

and anyway, I want it for mac first! :)
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Jammin' Adam on December 01, 2007, 02:31:16 AM
You can run Ots with less bloated Windows 2000.
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: moogie on July 16, 2008, 12:12:21 PM
I know this thread is an old one, but I thought I would share as well...

You can run Ots with a stripped out version of Windows. I use an OS called TinyXP. It is XP but without all of the bloat that comes standard on regular XP. No Internet Exploder, No windows bloat. it just boots to a desktop without any of the "built-in" crapware that not only Microsoft adds in, but if you happen to have a branded box, you also have a large amount of their branding and wares on it.

My Tiny XP install uses up about 400 Megs when fully installed. Not too bad considering that my XP Media Center uses near 2 gigs of space when installed.

TinyXP is JUST an OS. Nothing more. It is also very customizable with extra menus and extra elements in the menus. Just a thought.

there have been many many versions of this over the years. It started with "Win98Lite". My computer never uses more than half of the 384 Megs of ram... EVER, while my WinXP Media Center edition IDLES at 560+ Megs of ram used up.

560 is a bit steep when you only have 384 to start with!

I have also replaced the Windows Explorer shell with Aston. It runs with a very small footprint, and is infinately customizable. You can find out the details at www.astonshell.com. The trial version works forever, or if you want more than 10 desktop icons, the fare is $30.00. A small price to pay for the dependability it brings to the table!
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Dr.J on July 16, 2008, 07:08:33 PM
Quote from: Moogvo on July 16, 2008, 12:12:21 PM
I have also replaced the Windows Explorer shell with Aston. It runs with a very small footprint, and is infinately customizable. You can find out the details at www.astonshell.com. The trial version works forever, or if you want more than 10 desktop icons, the fare is $30.00. A small price to pay for the dependability it brings to the table!

You can also run a custom made shell, or OtsAV itself as a shell. I've made a custom shell with AutoHotkey and just saved it as an .exe file. It has just the basic functions and uses barely any memory.
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: stosostu on September 18, 2008, 01:11:41 PM
I have a sign in my workshop:

You can have your repair:

1. Good

2. Quick

3. Cheap

Pick any two, because:

A good, quick repair won't be cheap,

A cheap, quick repair won't be good, and

A good, cheap repair won't be quick.
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: krzyd on September 17, 2009, 09:24:51 PM
Good and quick, just get it done already. :wowza:
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: JohnnyTheFox on September 17, 2009, 09:51:09 PM
Here we go again...............

It will be here, when it's here!
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Lane on September 17, 2009, 10:29:05 PM
huh? it's already here. I got a pink one!

we're talking about ipod nano's right?
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: moodymedia on December 03, 2009, 01:44:47 AM
Rome wasnt built in a day
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: AtlanticSoundDisco on March 25, 2010, 02:43:51 PM
 :thumbsup:

I do not post on here often, but today ive had a realy interesting email from Numark, ive seen the all in one controller they released a few months ago, but now they are shipping single units, see link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=menCJNMKnks  why is ots not catching up with these guys, ive used such software and its pretty amazing, i feel we are seriously lagging behind now in the case of control and features, where the others are going forward faster and faster, and before anyone starts flaming, it would be worth mentioning that this software is being used in top radio stations here in the uk, something they would not do if it was unstable.

Tim.
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: thebigmg on October 26, 2010, 09:51:02 AM
I don't like to be a killjoy here, I know there are many people who run ots and will fight its corner to the end, I have been one of them.

I have worked in professional radio as a presenter and a programme controller and I have come out the other side.

I have used ots and its has some great features and its very stable, I have recommended it to many people!

I love it but I am sorry to say I have had this software for probably going on 8 years maybe more and on the radio side there has been very little improvement since the day I bought it.

I think OTS are trying to be everything for everybody and its becoming a failure of its own success.

OTS DJ
OTS Radio
OTS AV
OTS TV

What next? OTS Airline Audio? Surely it would be a nice idea to just start one product and finish it successfully before moving onto something else which again is only half finished.

I am all for waiting but I have done party's with OTS, I have done radio with OTS but there has been very little improvement on the radio side.

I know I will be slated here, I have seen someone try to have a constructive conversation about it but has been shot down by OTS Fanatics who won't have anything bad said about the product and the same will happen here with my comments.

OTS is an amazing product, the updates when they come are stable, in short I love it like you guys but its not cutting the mustard with the updates that radio needs. The dedication has gone on OTS TV/AV etc... so maybe they should stick to that and ditch the radio sales pitch and sort one before starting another?

I would like intellegent responses to my post rather than silly responses, I am not here to OTS bash I just think they need to concentrate on one part of the business if they can't deliver on another.

8 years is a long time and I have really come out the other side of radio now and didnt get any updates that made any difference to the way I scheduled. So many things have been suggested and I don't see many things implemented. Its a real shame. I know you people who work the clubs love it and the AV has been good for you. It just needs updates in equal messure and that doesn't appear to happen.

OK**** FIRE!



Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Darryl on October 26, 2010, 10:18:03 AM
I think many of the other radio people on this forum will agree with you, not slate you.

It's not functionaly perfect in any market sector - club DJs all want the spinning vynil feel platters, the likes of the Numark NS7 and Denon CDJ800 devices have.  Radio guys are screaming for voice tracking.  Karaoke jocks want the software to manage singer rotation.

It is however fair to say that what Ots Labs have done - they have done well.  For me, the lack of certain functionality isn't a problem (because if I want it badly enough I'll either buy some other product or work out a way of getting OtsAV to do it with some scripting or a helper application).  I can see that the lack of some functionality (particularly voice tracking) will be crucial to some radio stations.

All we can do is keep the pressure on Ots Labs to deliver something splendid - which I am confident that they will, but goodness knows when.

If you feel better having a rant (not that you did - others have in the past though) on this forum, I say go for it (as long as you understand the rules of the forum - like not making it personal or rude).

Now I'll run to a safe distance and see who starts shooting at both of us!

Have fun,
Darryl.
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Jigger on October 26, 2010, 11:50:33 AM
I agree with Darryl, nothing wrong with a sensible post,it has been said before only Ots know what they are doing, you never know you may be surprised, it would be nice to get the features you want for radio, I know you have waited a long time, lets hope your wishes are fulfilled sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Lane on October 26, 2010, 01:28:29 PM
I think the source of angst over not getting what you want from updates is probably because when they code something up, it's pretty darn good/stable and all that. If they did a feature you needed, you know it will be extremely reliable.

The Ots folks do what they do, and it either works for you or it doesn't. I have my own concerns with voice tracking etc. worked out another way. I eventually got to the point where I couldn't wait any longer. Such is business.
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: mel garland on October 26, 2010, 02:47:52 PM
I love OTSAV as it is cos it does what I want with no problems.  I'm not a club DJ, Karaoke Jock, radio DJ, or a TV Station but just a drop play presenter and interact with the crowd kind of presenter, I must be doing something right cos I'm always busy.  Would I like to beat mix like a club DJ you bet I would but I cant get my head around ABM with selecting/editing etc.  why can't I just have a button to press at the point I want to mix like some controllers have?

10 years ago OTS had one of the best DJ programmes out there that, in my opinion, and beat its competetors hands down but they decided to branch out into different ventures and in my mind took their eye off the DJ market which have now left us a long way behind.  Only the people at OTS headquarters know what they are doing, but won't keep us informed about any progress, which they are  in their rights to do, but just a little word here and now on what they are doing would go along way. 


Melvyn
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: nextgen1 on October 30, 2010, 05:30:47 AM
I guess for me the part that bothers me is when they said at the last upgrade. Now that we changed the code we should be able to come out with upgrades quicker. And guess what? It's heading on a year again.  :wowza:
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: scott hanna on January 13, 2011, 12:22:55 PM
Quote from: nextgen1 on October 30, 2010, 05:30:47 AM
I guess for me the part that bothers me is when they said at the last upgrade. Now that we changed the code we should be able to come out with upgrades quicker. And guess what? It's heading on a year again.  :wowza:

I was kind of excited last year when that came out.  I am a gadget freak and love new toys, love new technology,  so when they announced that, it seemed great that updates will be coming at a more frequent pace.  As we see, it's not to be.  The karaoke plug in came out before the 1st generation iphone and it still has not been finished.

However, I have a license to another dj software that seems to come out with new updates all the time.  Really cool ones.  Problem is every time they do, there is pages and pages of people with issues that need to be resolved.  Which is why that software never gets used at a wedding.

So would I like it faster?  Absolutely.  But I do count on OTS to release something extremely stable.  So, as of right now, it's still worth the painfully slow, snail like, slower than molasses, wait.
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Lou D on January 29, 2011, 07:24:45 PM
Dittos on every word, Scott!
BTW... Are you following me? Our paths cross often in cyberspace.

We and other Bose L1 owners have a similar experience with Bose. Bose started hinting about a new or upgraded T1 mixer, some time back. They even asked (Nov 09) what we (DJ's) would want in such a product but nothing has been mentioned since. That said, Bose provides stellar service and tech assistance.

Lou D
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: scott hanna on February 02, 2011, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: Lou D on January 29, 2011, 07:24:45 PM
Dittos on every word, Scott!
BTW... Are you following me? Our paths cross often in cyberspace.

Lou D

Lou,
Am I following you? No.  Stalking is more like it :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: Jumpin' Jeff on January 06, 2015, 08:14:01 PM
Reviewing this topic, and thought i'd update some info...
The direct links to the posted articles are no longer valid, as WinXPNews.com now sends you to http://www.vipreantivirus.com/

It's unfortunate that we can't link back to the original articles, but at least we still have them.
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: tower on October 31, 2016, 04:16:44 PM
Well we are into the 11th Month of 2016 and soon it will be 2017 and I still can not import more than 650 CDG+MP3 Ots Karaoke files INTO OTS STUDIO to bulk edit them due to a memory code size error which I reported to Ots back in 2008.   Then there is the MAJOR problem that MPEG2 or VOB Video DVD's are no longer used by Promo Only or XtendaMix and the MP4 and MKV format HD Video they supply Video Discotheque and Clubs will NOT IMPORT into OTS Studio direct.   It takes a very powerful PC to convert MP4 or MKV Video back to MPEG2 without major loss of quality.  I am spending HOURS every month converting Video for my group.

The batch editing tools for the BULK editing of OTS files has never been developed, despite it having been promised now for over 10 years.

None of this has anything to do with the CORE OTS software, but I want it Right and by that I MEAN RIGHT NOW.   Thank you.
Title: Re: Do You Want it Fast or Do You Want it Right?
Post by: markebenson on December 07, 2016, 10:18:03 AM
wondershare has solved all my problems  with file conversion.

http://www.wondershare.net/ad/video-converter-ultimate/index_both.html?id=BrandSitelink&gclid=CK_f76ft4dACFZA7gQodcFEGuQ